KenWHO'S GOT THE @#$%&! BARN DOOR KEYS?!!
Jim Naughton would REALLY like the story of Muslipalian Ann Holmes Redding to go away:
Jim Naughton, an influential Episcopal communicator, said he hopes the news of a Seattle Episcopal Priest claiming to be both Christian and Muslim is ignored. Naughton, Canon for Communications and Advancement for the Diocese of Washington, in an e-mail to Episcopal communicators said “I fervently hope that it will be possible to ignore this story until it slips back beneath the radar.”
Not happening any time soon, Jim lad. EVERYBODY'S on this story now. But there is something you could try that might speed up the process some. What's the term I'm looking for? Oh yes. You could:
PUBLICLY CONDEMN THIS BLITHERING IDIOCY!!
You might even work in a word of criticism or two for her imam bishop Vince Warner who seems to have no problem at all with any of this.
Aside from professing Christian orthodoxy and believing that the Bible means what it says, is there ANYTHING off-limits in the Episcopal Church anymore? Anything that would make even your boss say, "Uh...no. Uh-uh?" A lot of us are questioning the Christian identity of the Episcopal Church these days, Jim lad, and the picture of an Episcopal priest who thinks it's just fine to be a Christian and a Muslim and an Episcopal pointy-hat WHO'S PERFECTLY DELIGHTED BY THAT IDEA is not helping your cause any.
Submitted by Fuinseoig
at 6/20/2007 6:54:47 PM| "(I)s there ANYTHING off-limits in the Episcopal Church anymore? Anything that would make even your boss say, "Uh...no. Uh-uh?" Now, Christopher. You know the answer to that as well as we do. Certainly there is! Amongst the various things you could say and/or do to make yourself unwelcome would be: (1) Hmm - I don't know, maybe the Primates have a point after all?(2) You know, I don't think the Holy Spirit is doing a new thing (3)Hey, I just saw a picture of Archbishop Akinola and he doesn't have horns and a pointy tail!(4) Perhaps we should cool it for a bit on same-sex blessings - until the mind of the Universal Church has been discerned? (5) Er, you know, the Millenium Development Goals are very worthy aims, but surely as a church we should be concerned just as much with spiritual matters?(6) Sometimes, just sometimes, I do rather think that Jesus alone is the One, True Son of God and Saviour of the world (7) Wouldn't it be more loving and reconciling of us if we didn't sue the departing parishes into oblivion?And the list could go on and on and on and on... |
Submitted by McGregor
at 6/20/2007 7:28:43 PM| If they condemn this woman it would start the Episcopal Church down the slippery slope to actually establishing definite beliefs. That would eventually lead to the great sin of intolerance. |
Submitted by Bill (not IB)
at 6/20/2007 8:00:19 PM| "I fervently hope that it will be possible to ignore this story until it slips back beneath the radar." Why? Is it embarassing? Is it hard to explain? Does it require a difficult balancing act to approve of action "A" and not condemn action "B"? C'mon, Jimbo, explain to us all why this clear transgression of TEC canons and doctrine is unworthy of anyone's notice. Or - don't you have the yarbles, droogie? There's a word for this - well, several, actually. Hypocrisy. Pharisaism. Arrogance. Failing to live up to the standards of Bozos. (OK, more than one word....) Hyperexistentialpseudoneoanti-rationalism. |
Submitted by Peyton
at 6/20/2007 8:54:56 PM| As for quieting down, the item made it onto the 9:00 news on our little "all-volunteer" radio station -- and the announcer managed to suppress a snicker. Of course, most of us here are funda funda fundammmeentalistssssss. |
Submitted by Smurf Breath
at 6/20/2007 9:08:27 PM| Fuinseoig: Beat me to it. |
Submitted by ForNow
at 6/20/2007 9:10:50 PM| Is it a murch or a chosque that she wants to be in? One knew this sort of thing was coming. That's why so many were ready to believe a few years ago that Rowan Williams was dancing with religious Druids (they were actually something traditional and respected, under the same name). The Episcopalian Church's doctrine has been entering an amoeboid phase, it yearns for primeval protoplasticity, it cries out the cry of the slime mold from the heart of the cell for altered states. What am I talking about? These are leftists, they march to a drumbeat and most of them will turn on a dime when they discern to. |
Submitted by Andy K.
at 6/20/2007 9:48:39 PM| Oh, you forgot to be inclusive in your language, Christopher. "the picture of an Episcopal priest who thinks it's just fine to be a Christian and a Muslim" Shouldn't that read "priest(ess)"? Or is this woman trying to be a man too? |
Submitted by An American Mother
at 6/20/2007 9:51:48 PM| The "Druids" were the Gorsedd "priests" that hang around the Welsh Eisteddfod. They made the ABC an honorary member, which has no more religious significance than getting a key to some little county town somewhere. It all started with this guy who called himself Iolo Morgannwg (his real name was Ed Williams) back in the 1810s. He revived the legendary Welsh music and poetry festival with a bunch of Welsh nationalist pseudo-Druidic nonsense that he mostly invented out of his prolific imagination (nobody really knows much about the Druids, they were very secretive). So they're not really Druids, just Welshmen in fancy dress. And they do look very weird. So the ABC is weird, but not a Druid. |
Submitted by GB
at 6/20/2007 10:25:07 PM| I don't claim to know a lot about Muslims, but my understanding has always been that they are very strongly anti-gay. How do they reconcile their version of Christianity with this version of Islam? Or is the real objective just to make Christianity look ridiculous, anyway? |
Submitted by JM
at 6/20/2007 10:25:49 PM| Inconvenient, isn't it, Jimmie, when the common folk find out about what the elites are doing? If the Rev. Nutcake had been immediately defrocked and de-bhurka'd, this would be a curious footnote. Since her apostasy is accepted as normative by her bishop, it becomes evidence that the Episcopal "church" has slipped its moorings. |
Submitted by Christopher Johnson
at 6/20/2007 10:44:03 PM| "A murch or a chosque?" That's worth a coffee mug, FN, so e-mail me your address and which one you want. Although I don't know what a boat would want with a coffee mug. |
Submitted by Peter C.
at 6/20/2007 11:03:11 PMShe still hasn't gone as far as Bill Swing who's trying to collect the whole set. |
Submitted by obituary
at 6/21/2007 12:00:22 AM| The whole rotten mess is just mind blowing. The slippery slope is greased with maggots and is speeding up faster as the pitch increases. What do they think is waiting at the bottom? |
Submitted by Sinner
at 6/21/2007 12:46:56 AM| Why is anyone surprised?
Latest news from England via ACNS: the Archbishop says: being in Christ is what allows us to change our interpretation of Scripture. And for that, well who is at all surprised about one confused US priestess (may her jihad be quickly over!) |
Submitted by Sinner
at 6/21/2007 12:56:40 AM| or as Matt Kennedy says
{Everyone can now see} the startling similarities between what The Rev. Redding thinks about Christ, and what the Presiding Bishop thinks about Him. And, by extension, what Integrity, Oasis, Via Media, Claiming the Blessing, and the rest of the drivers of the left's agenda either believe about Christ and wish to promote themselves, or are willing to tolerate in the name of sanctifying homosexuality. If you tolerate homosexuality, by definition you give up on Christ. It's not three steps, or a slippery slope, from being a "reappraising Christian" or a "inclusive Christian" to claiming to be a "Christian and a Moslem" and then running a Jihad against anyone who disagrees it is exactly the same choice. the same decision. |
Submitted by Ellen
at 6/21/2007 6:34:46 AM| This whole thing leaves me gobsmacked. I'm a Catholic - proud to be one and I'm not going to half-ass it. I'm a Catholic all the way. I have Muslim friends and would not disrespect them by pretending to be something I am not. |
Submitted by Ed the Roman
at 6/21/2007 8:35:18 AM| I think "priestette" is the right word here. |
Submitted by ForNow
at 6/21/2007 8:56:26 AM| Thanks, Chris! As a boat, a compartment more aquatic than aqueous or amoeboid, I would of course want the "Bottom Feeders" large mug! I'll email you. |
Submitted by Andy K.
at 6/21/2007 10:13:56 AM| Dear Ed, Thanks. I was wondering what the term would be. Or, "priestam" Something. |
Submitted by Truth Unites...and Divides
at 6/21/2007 11:05:41 AM| o PUBLICLY CONDEMN THIS BLITHERING IDIOCY!! o Rev. Nutcake o A murch or a chosque o priestess (banned on StandFirm blog) o priestette o priestam There is a fellow "David" whom I've had the pleasure of meeting on another thread who states that this blog oftentimes gets into UnChristian name-calling. I've shown him where he's done name-calling himself, but he refuses to acknowledge when he does it. Just a mild alert. Continue on! |
Submitted by Elkanah
at 6/21/2007 11:59:16 AM| Episcopalians give us "The Reverend Mother Mullah Ann Holmes Redding" |
Submitted by charles austin
at 6/21/2007 12:31:58 PM| Does anyone know what the pram, or is it the imiest, thinks of Salman Rushdie? |
Submitted by Truth Unites...and Divides
at 6/21/2007 12:33:53 PM| I suppose Bishop Vickie Gene Robinson is a little relieved by this woman Redding. She's taking all the attention off him being a divorced, alcoholic, practicing homosexual bishop. What's worse, ++VGR or +Redding? Maybe they're equally a disgrace to the office of clergy. Since TEc leadership condones both, what does this say about TEc leadership? |
Submitted by Mark Windsor
at 6/21/2007 12:34:31 PM| The whole rotten mess is just mind blowing. The slippery slope is greased with maggots and is speeding up faster as the pitch increases. What do they think is waiting at the bottom? They think heaven is waiting at the bottom - of that there is no doubt. Now, everyone dig out your dusty old copies of Milton: "The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven." Followed that with the devil's words: "Better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven." This seems to cover ECUSAs philosophy pretty well. It seems that their Paridise is indeed Lost by our standards. But no worries. They can make a paridise of anything and claim it's righteous. |
Submitted by Peter C.
at 6/21/2007 12:40:12 PMTUaD, according to St. John of Damascus, here's a name that we can use to accurately describe Ms. Redding:
|
Submitted by Dr. Mabuse
at 6/21/2007 12:44:58 PMOh, 815 has finally come up with some talking points!As Fr. Jake puts it I wouldn’t even begin to comment on this. Since when are witch hunts the “Christian” thing to do?We'll just ignore the fact that she's positively glowing with satisfaction over her successful synthesis of Christianity and Islam, and her bishop is all excited and supportive. No, the official line is now that she's just going through a crisis, and we're all heartless and brutal to notice. |
Submitted by Truth Unites...and Divides
at 6/21/2007 12:46:53 PM| Peter C., I fully agree with you. The label fits. And since the label fits, it's not....oooooh for the thin-skinned liberal progressive.... it's NOT name-calling! Mark Windsor, thanks for pulling up Milton. Also, the idea of calling good evil, and evil good is also in the Bible. And thanks for IDENTIFYING THIS and CORRECTLY NAMING it. There are some people who don't like things properly diagnosed. |
Submitted by charles austin
at 6/21/2007 1:00:55 PM| Incidentally, the pram does know that the Islamic penalty for a female apostate is imprisonment or perhaps death, doesn't she? |
Submitted by Truth Unites...and Divides
at 6/21/2007 1:24:16 PM| >>> No, the official line is now that she's just going through a crisis, and we're all [too] heartless and brutal to notice. <<< Dr. Mabuse Dr. Mabuse, you are correct. Here's another statement from Fr. Jake: "My point here has been that the harsh condemnation is pushing this clergy person, and those who may be struggling with similar questions, further from Jesus and closer to Islam." But it's perfectly okay for 815 to condemn and litigate against the Virginia CANA parishes? Pharasaic Hypocrisy, thy name is TEc! |
Submitted by JM
at 6/21/2007 1:31:38 PM| The response from 815 is revealing. I suppose their enforcers are too busy breaking the kneecaps of any bishop who doesn't approve of women's ordination to have a sit-down with the bishop of Olympia about his Muslim priestess.<[> By the way, what is the Muslim position on women's ordination? |
Submitted by Smurf Breath
at 6/21/2007 2:29:53 PM| The spin meistering beggars belief, but at least it is kind-of sort-of an admission that the reasserters are theologically correct. But I don't see how this tactic can possibly work if she doesn't formally recant of anything and the bishop keeps beaming his approval. The tactic "my client may be a vicious criminal, but he's had a troubled childhood and lived on twinkies..." won't work unless the defendant shows signs of remorse. IOW is there anything to the vague references of Jake and (El)Woodward that the diocese is dealing with this in anyway, and Redding is in crisis mode? |
Submitted by Daniel Muller
at 6/21/2007 2:33:41 PM| Priestess [that would be from the Catholic/Orthodox point of view], priestette, priestam, The Reverend Mother Mullah, pram, imiest ...
I cannot even remember which Web log this came from, but my personal favorite from others' comments is imama. |
Submitted by Mark
at 6/21/2007 2:46:06 PM| "Priestess [that would be from the Catholic/Orthodox point of view]"
As an Orthodox Christian I reject the notion that there is anything Orthodox about calling female Episcopal priests "priestesses". I am sure you can find no respectable Orthodox (or Catholic) authority that endorses this usage. Neither men nor women in the Episcopal Church are priests from the point of view of the Orthodox Church, but as a courtesy most of us call them what they prefer to be called. The term "priestess" is used by some opponents of WO in many traditions as an expression of contempt. I consider it entirely unbecoming of anyone who calls himself a Christian. |
Submitted by midwestnorwegian
at 6/21/2007 2:46:40 PM| The Play Book – A flexible, working draft (Cliff Note Version): 1. Purport to hold shared values. 2. Destroy faith by first taking down the easiest groups – those who rely upon voting processes to determine theology and governance. Rely upon the very traditional tenants of the faith currently being dismantled to ensure compliance. 3. Label what was sinful a blessing. 4. Label what was a blessing sinful. 5. Be patient. The metamorphosis will take a couple generations. Schools (seminaries) are the keystone to ensure multi-generational success. 6. When those groups are destroyed, migrate to similar surviving groups by (ELCA, RC’s, etc.). 7. Once this is underway, begin destroying dissimilar groups by finding those individuals who can be a bridge between groups (Episcoslam priest-o-clerics). 8. Simultaneously begin program to take the focus off traditional cultural and religious underpinnings and supplant them with a new focus (MDG's). 9. Once reliance upon faith and self-governance is destroyed, the individuals (the groups will no longer be around) will begin to individually rely upon formalized hierarchical human structures including government and the United Nations for survival. 10. Create synergies to simultaneously take down individualism, democracy and capitalism to force greater reliance upon the above structures. (“Global Warming”, national borders, language, culture, reproduction, permissive drug use, etc.) 11. 12. It all somewhat reminds me of my trip to the former Soviet Union. Tour guide after tour guide took us into “museums” (former church buildings), and THEIR “churches” (government-built buildings and science museums). +Katherine Jefferts Schori – “Minister of Science” – you have to admit….it has a nice ring to it…and just imagine how majestic her portrait on a 60 foot tall red banner…. |
Submitted by Daniel Muller
at 6/21/2007 3:03:49 PM| The term "priestess" is used by some opponents of WO in many traditions as an expression of contempt. I consider it entirely unbecoming of anyone who calls himself a Christian.
All right, I do not propose to speak for Orthodox and you may consider that a retraction on my part. But the word "priestess" expresses very concisely the reason that women cannot be called to the priests: it is an understanding of priesthood alien to foundational teachings of sacrificial priesthood and unity with the priesthood of Jesus Christ, the Spouse of His Church. No, there is no need to spit in anyone's face (not even mine); I usually use the word "minister" myself when forced to choose. But not "priest." |
Submitted by Daniel Muller
at 6/21/2007 3:05:11 PM| corrigendum: called to the priesthood |
Submitted by Truth Unites...and Divides
at 6/21/2007 3:05:31 PM| >>> The term "priestess" is used by some opponents of WO in many traditions as an expression of contempt. I consider it entirely unbecoming of anyone who calls himself a Christian. <<< Mark, please read the following blog by a Christian history professor about the use of the word "priestess." http://rathernot.classicalanglican.net/?p=275#comments |
Submitted by Ed the Roman
at 6/21/2007 3:13:57 PM| That's worth a coffee mug, FN, so e-mail me your address and which one you want. Although I don't know what a boat would want with a coffee mug. That's easy. The Captain drinks coffee on most vessels. :-) Ed Romanowski, Master, Unlimited Oceans |
Submitted by Mark
at 6/21/2007 3:38:57 PM| TUAD, I read that when it first came out. |
Submitted by Truth Unites...and Divides
at 6/21/2007 3:56:33 PM| What did you think of it Mark? |
Submitted by bob
at 6/21/2007 4:00:02 PM| SO, "Truth Unites" wouldn't consider C.S. Lewis worthy of the title "Christian" ? He wrote an essay more than 50 years ago condemning women's ordination. The Anglicans love to discard whatever credibility they ever had. |
Submitted by Truth Unites...and Divides
at 6/21/2007 4:05:27 PM| Bob, perchance, do you have me confused with Mark in your post above? |
Submitted by James Manley
at 6/21/2007 4:52:00 PM| May I suggest we say that she has "swam the Red Sea?" |
Submitted by Mark
at 6/21/2007 5:26:44 PM| bob - when Lewis wrote his essay there were no women priests. He wasn't being contemptuous of anyone in particular. It was a legitimate usage then. |
Submitted by saint
at 6/21/2007 6:41:31 PM| This is no crisis of faith. Her own Q&A indicated she has been on this path for years. As I said before, why not start a respectful email campaign, to both your local bishop - be they in the U.S. or not - and hers. |
Submitted by Andy K.
at 6/21/2007 6:48:01 PM| Dear Mark, Are you bothered with the term "priestess" or its context? If I use "priestess" in its original meaning (woman who is fulfilling priestly duties), is that improper? |
Submitted by Fuinseoig
at 6/21/2007 6:51:06 PM| Someone explain to me how you can get any closer to Islam than *converting* and *publicly declaring yourself to be a Muslim in your parish magazine and the local newspaper* and *attending prayers in the local mosque* (well, with the local Islamic group - it's true, I don't know if they have a mosque or just a meeting place). But still - how is it possible to get any freakin' closer? And how can us picking up on this prodigious event "push" her "closer to Islam" than she already is? Oh, noes! If we don't play nice and stick our heads in the sand and pretend this never happened (like Mr. Naughton hopes), she might - might - might give up her position as a minister of the Christian religion, director of faith formation, and visiting associate professor lecturing on theology! The horror! Must be more of that exquisitely refined Piskie logic at work here, y'know, the higher thinking that base clods like us Romans and them Mormons are too thick to understand as we and they waste our and their time producing another eleven unmindful of proper stewarship of the earth, resource-consuming brats apiece. |
Submitted by Truth Unites...and Divides
at 6/21/2007 7:46:33 PM| Fuinseoig, it's not just Piskie logic that's the problem, I think it's liberal, progressive, leftist logic that permeates much of society. MODERN PC-THINK: "You can't be outraged at anything except at those who express outrage." What I mean by this is that according to liberal leftists, folks are wrong to express strong vocal feelings and words over: o Islamipalian o Alcoholic, divorced, actively gay Bishop o Abortion o Gay Marriage o Basically anything that the Left deems as good. Leftist Progressive Liberals will attack you as being judgmental, pharasaic, unloving, unChristlike, harsh, name-calling for voicing your protest over moral/political/social issues. They won't look at the issue directly. All they want to do is to distract you by focusing on HOW you expressed yourself, rather than directly on the issue itself. |
Submitted by Sparky
at 6/22/2007 6:54:00 AM| Our Vestry was recently asked by a Vestry member for permission to host a meeting of Democrats on Campus at our parish hall. When I asked about the theological background of one of the keynote speakers, the response was: "I don't know she might be a Muslim." The Muslim chic thing is part and parcel of the new, but not improved, spirituality of TEC. Ann Holmes Redding is not an aberration. |
Submitted by Ed the Roman
at 6/22/2007 8:31:55 AM| May I suggest we say that she has "swam the Red Sea?" I suggest "made the Hegira" (Mohammed's Flight to Medina from Mecca, before he came back and conquered the place). |
Submitted by midwestnorwegian
at 6/22/2007 8:52:15 AM| Have sent a copy to the editor of the diocesean newspaper here, and the state-wide newspaper asking them to print the article to show the remarkable "diversity" of TEC, and how "we" are helping to bridge religions. HAHAHAHA...see if either of them fall for it... If they don't, I'm committed to mailing a hard copy of the original article to each and every member in the cathedral mailing list here. |
Submitted by David
at 6/22/2007 10:18:51 AM| A question for Sparky: I am certain that you nor I would agree with anything this "Christian / Islamic" priest would have to say concerning theology, but I would like to understand your statement. Do you have a problem with a Muslim being in your Parish Hall? In the local Episcopal Church I attend, we do not allow ANY type of political meeting to be held on Church property, but no rules as to people having to be of a certain religon to walk in. |
Submitted by Consanescerion
at 6/22/2007 10:25:54 AM| Mark, if "priestess" is unrespectful, how about we say this to her and her bishop instead: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness." Would that be more or less respectful? |
Submitted by Consanescerion
at 6/22/2007 10:26:33 AM| Mark, if "priestess" is unrespectful, how about we say this to her and her bishop instead: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness." Would that be more or less respectful? |
Submitted by midwestnorwegian
at 6/22/2007 12:57:30 PM| Sent it to Matt Drudge - cross your fingers |
Submitted by bob
at 6/22/2007 1:02:04 PM| Mark, you misunderstand me. Priestesses in christianity are *every bit* as legitimate now as they were when Lewis wrote about the idea of them long ago. That is, not at all. I repeat what I've said before: There is no more infallible indication that an organization has become heretical than when it begins to ordain women. Period. Any Anglican want to debate the point? |
Submitted by Sparky
at 6/22/2007 1:34:43 PM| David,
Good question. Muslims, persons of other faiths, and persons with no faith are all welcome to attend events at our parish hall and worship at our church. What surprised me was the indifference to the theological beliefs and background of the speaker by the proposer of the event, a vestry member, particularly because the event was billed as involving theological and ethical components. As it turned out, the speaker was a Christian and not a Muslim, so reference to her possibly being a Muslim served only to diminish the importance of her faith, whatever it turned out to be. In other words, the speaker's faith was a matter of indifference and probably subservient or incidental to the speaker's politics. It seems politics heavily outweighed theology in the mind of the proposer that the event be venued on church property. I agree events which have an overtly political purpose should not be hosted on church property. C.S. Lewis had cogent advice in Screwtape about the usefulness of politics to disrupt faith. |
Submitted by Zach Frey
at 6/22/2007 1:40:23 PM"Priestess" - seems to me that word should be precisely as inflammatory as the words "actress", "waitress", and "seamstress". The fact that it's not considered so speaks volumes, doesn't it? Uh-oh -- I think that's a knock on the door from Minitrue. Disregard the above -- it may be thoughtcrime.
peace, |
Submitted by SInner
at 6/22/2007 4:26:11 PM| the real scandal is a very simple one.
is there ANYTHING off-limits in the Episcopal Church anymore? Anything that would make even your boss say, "Uh...no. Uh-uh?" Yep. If she converted to Christianity - Nigeria or Kenya or Uganda or the Southern Cone we know she would be instantly deposed without trial or appeal!. A little more than a year ago, the Rev. Dr. Ann Holmes Redding found herself at the doorway to a new world: Christianity, and wasn’t quite sure how she got there. As she reflected on her journey, she realized Jesus was her guide. Now both a practicing Muslim and an Episcopal priest, Redding shares her thoughts on how the two faiths inform each other. “The way I understand Jesus is compatible with Episcopalianism,” Redding explains, “and “The way I understand Jesus is compatible with Islam,” Redding explains, “and although there are Christians and Episcopalians who think I must convert from one to the other, the more I go down this path the more excited I am about both Christianity and Episcopalianism" After an introduction to a Christian prayer practice at at Plano conference in early 2006, Redding knew she had been wrestling with a call to Christianity. She approached a CANA woman and told her so, and the woman replied, “Episcopalianism has been good to you and you to it - you've got a job and a house and a pension - and you don’t have to choose.” That made all the difference in Redding’s choice to practice Christianity.
Upon hearing this news, Redding's bishop called for his standing committee and demanded she was instantly deposed, as he said: "Redding has joined a Christian Church (CANA) that is not in communion with ECUSA, so we must delete her immediately from the list of Eposcopalians!" |
Submitted by dwstroudmd
at 6/22/2007 9:53:41 PM| Try Dante, Admiral/Sinner. Check out Mohammed's location. God deposes, not man. A minor point for the ECUSA/TEC, I admit, but salikent. |
Sounds like a Katharine Jefferts Schori "live in tension" scenario. Now, silence from 815 will equal support of Redding and Warner. The PB has been put in a jam by these two.