KatherineUPSIDE THE HEAD
Piskie Pravda finally takes notice:
National and local leaders of the Episcopal Church were among the invited guests at an ecumenical prayer service on April 18 with Pope Benedict XVI at Saint Joseph Roman Catholic Church on New York’s Upper East Side. The parish, founded in 1873, grew out of the German-speaking community of Yorkville.
After greetings by Cardinal Edward M. Egan of New York and Monsignor John Sullivan, administrator of Saint Joseph Parish, the audience of some 250 Anglican, Protestant and Orthodox and 50 Roman Catholic leaders in ecumenism then heard Bishop Dennis J. Sullivan, vicar general for the archdiocese, welcome the Pope with a summary of recent ecumenical relations between the branches of Christianity.
During the course of his message, the Pope addressed the Current Unpleasantness head-on.
Benedict decried the "splintering" of Christian churches over "so-called ’prophetic actions' that are based on a hermeneutic not always consonant with the datum of Scripture and Tradition." Such actions, he said, cause Christian communities to "give up the attempt to act as a unified body, choosing instead to function according to the idea of ’local options,’" thus losing their connections to Christians in other times and places. Some, but not all, interpreted that as a veiled reference to controversy in the Episcopal Church and the Anglican Communion.
Was that a shot at TEO? New York's Mark Sisk didn't think so.
"I think he did us the honor of giving us a serious address that I think needs to be read and reflected upon," said New York’s Bishop Mark Sisk. Asked whether he thought Benedict had singled out the Episcopal Church in his remarks, Sisk responded, "It’s possible--but I would be rather surprised. I don’t think he was trying to send shots across the bow at particular churches. I think he spoke in a respectful way and I didn’t see that as a shot at the Episcopal Church."
Which means that it was. Remember this?
(In 2003, then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger sent a telegram on behalf of Pope John Paul II to the American Anglican Council’s "A Place to Stand" protest meeting in Texas following that year’s General Convention. The message spoke of the Pope’s "heartfelt prayers" and said that "the significance of your meeting is sensed far beyond Plano... in the Church of Christ there is a unity in truth and a communion of grace which transcend the borders of any nation. With this in mind, I pray in particular that God’s will may be done by all those who seek that unity in the truth, the gift of Christ himself.")
Submitted by Jim the Puritan
at 4/19/2008 3:43:20 PM| So the Pope basically came out and called TEO a cult. Good for him. Now we know why Her Wholiness PB Jefferts Schori was otherwise engaged. |
Submitted by Richard/Yorkville
at 4/19/2008 4:37:25 PM| What some construe as a comment on TEO and the Anglican Communion applies as well to the Presbyterians and Lutherans (and probably other Protestant bodies). The Presbyterians AND Lutherans in America are as torn as TEO by proponents of the lavender agenda and other "new things." |
Submitted by Peter Brown
at 4/19/2008 4:43:13 PMI find myself in the surprising position of agreeing with Mark Sisk—I don't think the Pope was singling out the Episcopalians. I probably differ from Mark Sisk in feeling quite confident that the Pope's critique nails the Episcopalians. But Episcopalians are hardly the only folks who've given up the attempt to function as a unified body in the service of an agenda they called "prophetic". To suppose that they are is to attach too much novelty to the actions of the reappraisers. Peace,--Peter |
Submitted by Margaret
at 4/19/2008 4:55:43 PM| Peter I totally agree. And I think to believe that the American Anglican church is the only one high in the mind of the Pope is to give it a level of status that it simply doesn't have. The TEC is a very small and insignificant group even on an Anglican scale -- let alone a global church scale. |
Submitted by Fuinseoig
at 4/19/2008 5:07:18 PM| I don't think this was so much a swipe at the Episcopalians as a gentle reminder to those on this side of the Tiber who lament "Why can't we be more like the Episcopalians/Lutherans/Methodists/whomever? It'd be so ecumenical!" that the purpose of ecumenism is not to dissolve all together into a soggy mess of warm fuzziness, but to heal the wounds of division in the Body of Christ. Though I do wonder where he got the phrase "prophetic actions" from? ;-) |
Submitted by Christopher Johnson
at 4/19/2008 5:09:58 PM| Except that the TEO is a LOT richer and has a lot more international influence. That's the reason I thought the Pope might have been glancing in Sisk's and Epting's direction when he said those words. |
Submitted by Dr. Mabuse
at 4/19/2008 5:35:04 PM| I confess, I originally missed the fact that this was an ecumenical prayer service. I just saw it as a prayer service at a Roman Catholic church, with some invited guests along. So I saw it as a well-aimed heel squashing the pretensions of women "priests" in the RC Church. Of course, it fits TEC perfectly (maybe because the "prophetic" ravings started from the same seed), but honestly, I don't think they're important enough to rate a pointed remark from the Pope. |
Submitted by mcmlxix
at 4/19/2008 6:08:57 PM| Well at least Sisk seems wise enough to understand that His Holiness doesn't likely spend his time veiling references particularly to Episcopalians, but (surprise) speaks universally. Any other assumption seems so uniquely narcissistic. Myself, I'm rather curious to know how Mormons took his words, as I understand two LDS representatives were at the prayer service. Besides profoundly differing historical hermeneutics and theologies, simple semantics give rise to problems. |
Submitted by Sodbuster
at 4/19/2008 6:26:53 PM| Plano is not a reference to any of the Lutheran synods or Presbyterian assemblies. That refers to the Protestant Episcopal Unitarians, or PEU, for short. LCMS, ELS, WELS, AALC, Free Lutherans, Lutheran Brethren; none of those Lutheran bodies are torn apart by the sodomites. ELCA is, but it isn't Lutheran anymore. PCA, OPC, CRC and derivatives likewise don't have that problem; the PCUSA does, but it, like ELCA and PEU are no longer Christian bodies (though like PEU, there are Christians still in them, facing Lot's wife's dilemma) |
Submitted by Laura R.
at 4/19/2008 6:40:23 PM| This is from the Catholic News Service article on the ecumenical meeting: While the pope did not offer specific examples, he has in the past questioned Christian communities that have decided to ordain women to the priesthood and episcopacy or to bless homosexual unions and ordain openly gay men and women. The pope's concerns obviously extend to the Anglican Communion and its troubled relations with the U.S. Episcopal Church and some dioceses in Canada. The Anglican Communion is attempting to find ways to strengthen its structures for ensuring that one national member does not take actions that make other members of the communion uncomfortable. At times, bishops have been named to oversee pastoral care of members who do not go along with the changes. Here is the link. |
Submitted by Laura R.
at 4/19/2008 6:42:34 PM| Sorry again, I haven't figured out the formatting here so as to break up the text into paragraphs -- |
Submitted by Christopher Johnson
at 4/19/2008 6:44:47 PM| Laura,
To format text here, you have to do it yourself. Click here. |
Submitted by ccinnova
at 4/19/2008 7:07:02 PM| "Piskie Pravda." Chris, that's clever.
Three years ago I attended an Anglican Communion Network conference in Woodbridge, VA. At the close of the conference +Duncan announced that Pope John Paul II had died. +Duncan also announced the network had sent condolences to then-Cardinal Ratzinger, citing Ratzinger's support of the Plano meeting. |
Submitted by dwstroudmd
at 4/19/2008 7:25:18 PM| Piskie Pravda versus Inveighling Ivesta. Chris made the correct, right, ASSonance, IMHO. |
Submitted by Sasha
at 4/19/2008 8:55:58 PM| Dwstroudm: were you thinking of "Izvjéstija"? |
Submitted by Dr. Mabuse
at 4/19/2008 8:58:59 PM| Didn't Lenin and his wife run a small paper called "Iskra" in their early days? I remember way back to my highschool history, and I seem to recall that little detail; also that the word was the Russian for "spark". |
Submitted by Sasha
at 4/19/2008 9:23:03 PM| "Iskrá" would published between 1900 and 1905. Ljéñin (the original manager) and his wife Nadjézhda Krúpskaja left the paper in 1903 when the Russian Social Democratic Labour Party split. It was then seized by the "Mjéñshjeviki" and continued publishing under their leader Pljekhanóv. |
Submitted by Sasha
at 4/19/2008 9:28:42 PM| Oops, the stress in this case is on the FIRST syllable: thus the word, transliterated, would be spelled "Ískra". Mea culpa... |
Submitted by Christopher Hathaway
at 4/19/2008 9:42:07 PM| Maybe the Pope wasn't so much firing a shot accross the bow as one below the waterline. This ship of fools is sinking. Might as well hurry it along. |
Submitted by Ed the Roman
at 4/20/2008 6:48:38 AM| Wasn't a shot at all. It was the sound of liferafts inflating after being thrown over the side. |
Submitted by The Little Myrmidon
at 4/20/2008 8:58:03 AM| I have heard through unofficial sources that the "reason" that KJS declined the invitation was because she was told privately that her presence would put the pope into an embarassing position. Personally, I don't think that's ever stopped her before. I don't know what to make of that, but that's what being bruited about. |
Submitted by Therese Z
at 4/20/2008 10:14:07 AM| The Pope could NOT be put into an embarassing position. When Nancy Pelosi kissed his ring, she's the one that looks like a snake, not him. Just because he didn't jerk his hand back and maybe even slug her gently in the face like bishops did to us in the old Confirmation service (wish they'd bring that back - we couldn't WAIT for that moment!), he didn't lose any face, at least according to my Catholic sensibilities. Or have I missed something? |
Submitted by Sasha
at 4/20/2008 10:19:37 AM| Therese Z: Can you please elaborate on the old Confirmation service for those of us who're not that knowledgeable about the Romanist Church - I never heard about bishops punching children (even if those latter made mistakes)... |
Submitted by Ken
at 4/20/2008 11:57:40 AM| This was done in Episcopal confirmations, as well, or so I was told by a friend confirmed some years before me. While he had you kneeling there, the bishop would give a light tap to the side of your hear, to help you remember humility. |
Submitted by mcmlxix
at 4/20/2008 11:58:38 AM| "Placing a hand under my chin, the bishop raised my face and mumbled some words in Latin. As clear as a bell, he mentioned James, then gave me a slight slap across the face. This was to make me aware that I had reached the stage of awareness of the pains that man is able to inflict on man, so I was told. "
Appartently it's a tradition from the 13th century. When did it end? VII? |
Submitted by TWilson
at 4/20/2008 12:22:00 PM| On the face-slapping during Confirmation, CANA bishop David Bena still does this. My better half experienced this first-hand (no pun intended) when she was confirmed as an adult. Bishop Bena is an ex-Marine chaplain, and was quite emphatic. When I was confirmed in RCC as a youth, I didn't get the slap, but if you check the Catholic Encyclopedia early 20th centry confirmation involved imposition of hands, chrism on the forehead, then a slight blow to the cheek (nice Trinitarian echo). Not sure when it went out of fashion (V2 is good guess, though). |
Submitted by Daniel Muller
at 4/20/2008 1:20:32 PM| Yes, not getting the bishop's slap -- I was told that it had symbolized humility and obedience to a father in faith -- was disappointing. I assume that a Catholic can still get it in the Extraordinary Form of the sacrament. |
Submitted by Fuinseoig
at 4/20/2008 1:57:00 PM| I was confirmed Roman Catholic back in 1975 and we did get the slap (actually a gentle touch to the side of the face, because c'mon, if a bishop starts slapping a bunch of twelve year olds, there's going to be holy war over it). We were told it symbolised the persecution and suffering we should be ready to endure for the faith. |
Submitted by Sasha
at 4/20/2008 4:28:31 PM| Thank you, Ken, mcmlxix et al. I really didn't know about this (when confirmed in Eastern Orthodoxy, the priest didn't do anything that I truly remember). As to the practise being "passé" justifiably or not, I would have thought that there are better ways to see about obedience-testing... |
Submitted by Texas Bama Fan
at 4/20/2008 4:39:07 PM| I was confirmed just this past year and I got a "slap" . . . but a quite gentle one. ; ) |
Submitted by Therese Z
at 4/20/2008 4:48:43 PM| Everybody already answered so well....we were told that we were slapped (yes, it was a gentle tap from a gloved hand, back when bishops wore those cool gloves with the embroidered coat of arms, I'm talking about the 1960's for me) that we were being reminded that we were "soldiers for the faith" and we had to be prepared for everything up to and including martyrdom. We were greatly impressed, even the goofballs. I'm glad to hear that it's still being done in some dioceses. And BTW we used to get confirmed much younger: I was 9, because that's the year the bishop could work his way around to our parish. It could have been 9 or 10 or 11, but no older. I don't know what I think about kids being confirmed older these days. On the one hand, they understand it better, but on the other hand, there's a tendency to think that they're finished with their training and growth in the faith, which freezes their catechesis at an awfully early age. |
Submitted by Therese Z
at 4/20/2008 4:54:45 PM| P.S. I was a sponsor for an adult confirmand in his early 40's a few years ago and the bishop didn't slap him...so I did, right after the Mass. I've even heard that some dioceses don't make you take a confirmation name any more, either. Not only can it be a meaningful spiritual communion with the saints, it's fun to compare confirmation names when we meet up...mine's Ann. |
Submitted by Fuinseoig
at 4/20/2008 5:06:25 PM| LOL, Therese Z! "Welcome to the Church - pow! right in the kisser!" |
Submitted by Chris Molter
at 4/21/2008 6:05:45 AM| Do you think most Bishops would feel uncomfortable if I specifically requested the Apostolic Slap at my Confirmation? Maybe I can just weasel my way into it by insulting his shoes or homilies or something... |
Submitted by Hoya.
at 4/21/2008 10:05:54 AM| First, it seemed odd that reporters touted the Pope's visit as "inclusive" and "multicultural." After all, this is the CATHOLIC Church, people. If Rome hasn't learned about variety and universality from 2,000 years of world-wide witness, the human race ought to just give up on the gig. On the confirmation topic, I recall the slap being explained as "knocking out the Devil." And that was right in PECUSA. |